Pedophelia question

[TheDiddleyMan]

A girl in our area was recently abducted and this got me thinking about the issue of pedophelia (the sexual attraction to young girls or boys. Note that I am not referring simply to those who commit illegal acts). I had a few questions and I thought this forum my help (sorry if it is the wrong one.)

1) How common is pedophelia? I guess I am looking at the number of preteen/teen modelling sites out there and it seems to me that there may be many more men (or women perhaps) who are pedophiles than I thought. (Note that I do not believe nor am I insinuating that if there are a lot, that makes it morally right or desirable)

2) Can a pedophile be attracted to both children and women who are their age (or men who are their own age)? Could there some who function as otherwise normal people who happen to be attracted to young girls or boys?

3) Is it a sexual issue or a psychological issue? Is it their bodies that pedophiles are attracted to, or is it an issue of power? I have heard conflicting ideas...

4) Other than the age group of attraction, are there any other differences between hebephelia and pedophelia?

thank you very much,

Kevin

[Friar Bellows]

It must be difficult to find quality research on this subject. Let group A be the group of all pedophiles (i.e. people preferentially sexually-attracted to children). Let group B be the group of all people who have sexually abused children. Let group C be the group of all people who have sexually abused children and been charged and prosecuted for it. What percentage of people in group A are in group B? What percentage of people in group B are in group C? I would guess that most of the research on pedophilia has been done on people in group C. It must be difficult to find volunteers from those who don't belong in group C. And one more question: what percentage of those who don't belong in group A belong to group B or C? Perhaps some of those who have sexually abused children do not have a sexual attraction for children (or maybe they do, but it's not a preferential attraction).

An accurate picture of pedophiles and pedophilia might therefore be difficult to obtain.

I can answer one of your questions with a simple Google search: hebephilia is sexual attraction to pubescent children specifically (adolescents), while pedophilia is sexual attraction to children in general (but usually refers to pre-pubescent).

[Madkins007]

If you do a simple Google search on pedophilia, you'll get some interesting sites and answers.

For example, people who are excited by young children are generally attracted to a certain type and less attracted to people of either sex their own age group.

Statistics of percentages of pedophiles are difficult to arrive at because nearly every reporting system uses different definitions or are measuring different things.

I have done some research on this topic to help teach youth protection and similar programs in Scouts, etc., and the data is not really hard to come by on the Net.

[Jeremy Pallant]

This subject can get rancorous extremely quickly. I am therefore going to take pre-emptive action, and ask everyone to keep it civil.

[andy_d]

Hmm, well in my extremely unscientific and uninformed opinion:

1) I'd say that the massive abundance of teen sites would probably reflect the "lolita aesthetic" which is something that has probably always existed. Youthfulness is one of the most obvious characteristics in conventional female beauty. It's a common theme in art, from the movie "American Beauty" to Nabokov's book that gave us the name.

I don't see that as being equivalent to pedophilia, however. To my mind, the presence of sexual characteristics makes it a different aesthetic. Of course, behaviour in real life is a different story. Just because some 15 year old girls look 23, doesn't mean it's ok to go chasing them.

The pedophiles (IMHO) are the ones who get excited about pre-pubescent children. To do that, you'd obviously have to be wired up differently from the rest of us. They're obviously the cutomers of these pre-teen sites.

2) I've heard so, yes. Apparently there is such a thing as a "preferential pedophile" who turns to children because they are unable to form relationships with adults. This doesn't mean they aren't still attracted to adults. I first heard the term in relation to the allegations against Michael Jackson.

3) You could ask that about any type of sexual behaviour

4) Hebephilia? That's a new one to me.

[The AntiChris]

Originally posted by andy_d
4) Hebephilia? That's a new one to me.
Abnormal affection for shrubs.

Chris

[Seeker196]

the same age question is interesting.

I wouldn't consider two underage gay boys or girls to be 'pedophiles', nor straight girls and boys having sex. It's not normal, but I don't think it's pedophilia. Maybe it leads to pedophilia?

If you had sex with boys or girls when you where a boy or girl, does that mean you will be conditioned to still find them attractive as you age?

What about 'consensual rape'? If you were 'consensually raped' by an adult as a child, does that mean you are more likely to become a pedophile?

Project Guardian (google search it), a multi-year effort by the London, Ontario Police dept, psychologists, federal police, and academics, uncovered a disturbing pattern in the 'ring':

That victims became victimizers as they aged, and consensually raped kids would 'recruit' others into the ring, multi-generationally. This adds support to the 'operant conditioning' theory of pedophiles I believe.

NOTE: I'm trying to get across a difficult concept with 'consensually raped', in that it is sex with consent by someone who cannot give informed consent....false consent? Believed consent? blaaarrghhh....ya know what I mean.

Anyway some search terms:

Project Guardian
London Ontario
Pedophile Ring
Study
Julian Fantino (chief of police at the time)

very interesting case: How do you 'bring back' into normal society a fourteen year old boy who says he enjoys sex with boys and men? Who acts lasciviously? Who can't be trusted to be left alone with normal boys his age lest he 'infect' them? That was one case in Project Guardian.

NOTE: I was a volunteer on the North London Community Sentencing and Justice Group for some years and ran into some of these people being recycled through the system....like ripples in a pond, the destructive patterns just spread and affect everything.

[wonkothesane]

I think that you have to differentuate between pre and post pubesent's. Remember, adolesence is a fairly new societial invention. Untill very recently (past 100 years), and still in many 3rd World countries, if you're past puberty, you're of marrying age...
('course, now we have precoucious puberty syndrome...9 year old's having periods...that's *way* two young, IMHO...hell, my 8 year old told me that she needs a training bra - she's getting breasts! And she is in no way ready for sex, but she talks about boys and "love" alot...just shoot me!)

I'm still trying to figure out why it's okay for two 16 year olds to have sex, but not a 16 and 22 year old...maturity?

I know a woman who was 16 and married a 26 year old man (still legal in ill., USA) and now *her* mother is paranoid that every guy over 18 is gonna run off with her 16 year old grand daughter...

- bryce

[tronvillain]

1) Being attracted to post-pubescent girls has nothing to do with pedophillia. We were sexually attracted to them when we were their age and there is no mechanism that somehow turns that off as we get older, it is simply the difference in maturity, the probable lack of common interests, and the potential power power imbalances that keeps most of us from being interested.

2) While it is logically possible, it seems unlikely. Pedophiles appear to be attracted to youth cues while lacking attraction to sexual maturity cues, plus there are potentially issue of power and control. I suppose they might settle for someone their own age, but it would be far from their ideal.

3) While some people claim it is about power and control, a desire for power and control has no apparent direct link to being sexually attracted to children. It seems more likely that there is actually something wrong with the cognitive mechanisms involved in attraction (as I said, attraction to youth cyes while lacking attraction to sexual maturity cues).

4) Hebephilia? Ah, being attracted to adolescents. I would say there is a very significant difference between the that and pedophilia. It at least is within the normal range of attraction, though an exclusive focus on that age group seems like a problem. It could very well be a less extreme form, with an extreme attraction to youth cues, but not lacking attraction to sexual maturity cues.

[BigJim]

Here is an interesting, disturbing, and very long article (http://www.rickross.com/reference/polygamy/polygamy123.html) on a small segment of society who have been conditioned into predatory sex with much younger adolescent girls.

It's a polygamous offsshoot of the mormons. And while I personally have no problem with polygamy as long as it's consensual adults, the competition has led the men to take younger and younger brides.

Some of the laws are interesting. Apparently you can marry at 16 (with parental consent), but not to someone more than 10 years older than you.